So will I "need" a tune? - Infiniti Q60 Forum
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 01:34 AM Thread Starter
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So will I "need" a tune?

Hello, I have a 2017 q60 premium. However, I came from a fully tuned WRX. Stage 3 tune, I had upgraded just about everything but was running very conservative as I wasn't forged and was scared to blow motor #3 , yes blew 2 short blocks due to Oil pump failures causing the engine to seize from spun bearing.

At any rate, I've been reading and researching our cars and from what I can gather I can do catback exhaust, downpipes and intake without a tune? Please help me understand if im misunderstanding. On my Wrx, it was very black and white about needing a tune to do these specific mods or else. I do understand the tune will help tie everything together and ultimately make the car performance better but on the wrx it was absolutely needed, whereas on the q60 it's not absolutely necessary? I haven't ordered anything yet but I'm getting the itch. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 02:00 AM
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Yes, you can do LDPs, CBE, and AMS Intake w/o a tune, however, if you want to "stick a toe in the water", buy a Burger Tuning JB4 w/Bluetooth & Fuel Wires - you'll be able to achieve 16-17 psi on pump gas w/o risk of blowing the engine. Otherwise, those bolt-ons with a stock tune will leave you around 7-8 psi peak boost, iirc (I have a Red Sport, so I'm going from memory...).

I have an Ecutek tune through [email protected] With mods (see my sig), my Q60 Red Sport AWD put down 437 WHP & 502 WTQ w/pump gas on a DynoJet AWD Dyno. Seb tunes for safe power. While some Q50 & Q60 owners have had engine and/or turbo issues, I'm not aware of anyone with Seb's Ecutek tune experiencing boost-related issues.

2017 Q60 Red Sport AWD Iridium Blue / Monaco Red / Premium Plus Package 3.0t Sport / Infiniti Sport Mats / FI Full Catted DPs & CBE / Stoptech Trophy BBK FR & RR w/SS-Braided Brake Lines / Infiniti HE / Infiniti Intakes / AMS HPFP / Ecutek Tune / BMS Pedal Tuner / Infiniti Radiant Sport Grille / EMM Tuning CF Foglight Finishers / CF Duckbill RR Spoiler / Mishimoto OCC / Stillen Rear Stab Future: AMS LPFP / AMS CF DS / Z1 LSD / Vorsteiner 20" VFF 112s (Staggered) / Michelin Pilot 4Ss
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 10:41 AM Thread Starter
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IridiumRS400, thank you. The Wrx was my only tuning experience so maybe things have always been this way with other turbo cars. I plan on just taking it slow as this car was a different type of investment than the Subaru. I'm not tracking it, just wanted a bit more out of it. Also, is there a general preferred mod to do first, out of my list? Also, the heat exchanger seems like another safe mod to add to my list.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris K. View Post
IridiumRS400, thank you. The Wrx was my only tuning experience so maybe things have always been this way with other turbo cars. I plan on just taking it slow as this car was a different type of investment than the Subaru. I'm not tracking it, just wanted a bit more out of it. Also, is there a general preferred mod to do first, out of my list? Also, the heat exchanger seems like another safe mod to add to my list.
Exhaust is the biggest bang-for-the-buck on this platform. As for exhaust choice, some owners want sound, some owners want power - I chose Fast Intentions out of Simi Valley, CA, as they have designed an exhaust that is well-built, good-sound, and impressive power gains for a CBE. FI uses an X-pipe in their mid-pipe design for additional cylinder scavenging. Add their LDPs for even more power and to support higher boost levels (the secondary cat is huge restriction).

Here's a video of my Q60 with the FI LDPs & CBE w/JB4, too:


This CBE is what FI calls their "touring" edition. It is not raspy or has drone at highway speeds. I've heard that FI may be marketing a shorter (louder) muffler as an option for their CBE in the near future. The only downside is FI requires a 6-8 week lead time, as they are a small shop, and as such, build-to-order. Kevin @ FI will help answer any further questions you would have. I installed the LDPs & CBE myself, using a friend's lift.

I would agree the HE is essential once the boost level increase. The stock HE is "one-and-done" when having higher boost levels - repeated boost will heat soak it easily. I chose the Infiniti-branded (AMS) HE, as it is an Infiniti Motorsports part, and I had my dealership install it, giving me a one-year warranty on the installation. It took them 4-5 hrs to perform the job @ $140/hr. While a few more dollars than the BMS HE, it fits like a glove, looks OEM, and performs very well for the street (and track, if you so choose).

So the mod suggested mod order - CBE, LDPs, JB4, and HE.

Regarding CAIs (because you'll eventually ask...), the stock intakes perform very well for this mod level. I would not buy a CAI until you invest in an Ecutek tune, because only at the level of tune will a AMS CAI give you another 10-15 hp, at best. Infiniti did a really good job with the stock airflow.

Intake comparison:


Good luck!

2017 Q60 Red Sport AWD Iridium Blue / Monaco Red / Premium Plus Package 3.0t Sport / Infiniti Sport Mats / FI Full Catted DPs & CBE / Stoptech Trophy BBK FR & RR w/SS-Braided Brake Lines / Infiniti HE / Infiniti Intakes / AMS HPFP / Ecutek Tune / BMS Pedal Tuner / Infiniti Radiant Sport Grille / EMM Tuning CF Foglight Finishers / CF Duckbill RR Spoiler / Mishimoto OCC / Stillen Rear Stab Future: AMS LPFP / AMS CF DS / Z1 LSD / Vorsteiner 20" VFF 112s (Staggered) / Michelin Pilot 4Ss

Last edited by IridiumRS400; 08-11-2019 at 03:16 PM.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by IridiumRS400 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris K. View Post
IridiumRS400, thank you. The Wrx was my only tuning experience so maybe things have always been this way with other turbo cars. I plan on just taking it slow as this car was a different type of investment than the Subaru. I'm not tracking it, just wanted a bit more out of it. Also, is there a general preferred mod to do first, out of my list? Also, the heat exchanger seems like another safe mod to add to my list.
Exhaust is the biggest bang-for-the-buck on this platform. As for exhaust choice, some owners want sound, some owners want power - I chose Fast Intentions out of Simi Valley, CA, as they have designed an exhaust that is well-built, good-sound, and impressive power gains for a CBE. FI uses an X-pipe in their mid-pipe design for additional cylinder scavenging. Add their LDPs for even more power and to support higher boost levels (the secondary cat is huge restriction).

Here's a video of my Q60 with the FI LDPs & CBE w/JB4, too:


This CBE is what FI calls their "touring" edition. It is not raspy or has drone at highway speeds. I've heard that FI may be marketing a shorter (louder) muffler as an option for their CBE in the near future. The only downside is FI requires a 6-8 week lead time, as they are a small shop, and as such, build-to-order. Kevin @ FI will help answer any further questions you would have. I installed the LDPs & CBE myself, using a friend's lift.

I would agree the HE is essential once the boost level increase. The stock HE is "one-and-done" when having higher boost levels - repeated boost will heat soak it easily. I chose the Infiniti-branded (AMS) HE, as it is an Infiniti Motorsports part, and I had my dealership install it, giving me a one-year warranty on the installation. It took them 4-5 hrs to perform the job @ $140/hr. While a few more dollars than the BMS HE, it fits like a glove, looks OEM, and performs very well for the street (and track, if you so choose).

So the mod suggested mod order - CBE, LDPs, JB4, and HE.

Regarding CAIs (because you'll eventually ask...), the stock intakes perform very well for this mod level. I would not buy a CAI until you invest in an Ecutek tune, because only at the level of tune will a AMS CAI give you another 10-15 hp, at best. Infiniti did a really good job with the stock airflow.

Intake comparison:


Good luck!
Thanks again @IridiumRS400. The video pull seemed strong and the tone sounded great. I feel comfortable in doing most of ther work myself and will likely start probably with exhaust and LDP at the same time. I will keep you posted and upload a video once those are done. Thanks again.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 08:56 PM
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Welcome to the forum Chris.

You can't go wrong with @IridiumRS400's advice. I also am. just "dipping my toe in the water" with a JB4. I opted for the Stillen exhaust and Air Intake. As far as the Air Intake, I would recommend the Stillen if you live in So Cal. (I'm in Carson) It's getting pretty crazy (crazier!) around here with cops "raiding" meets and popping hoods looking for illegal (non CARB exempt) mods. As far as I know, Stillen parts, which is also sold through the Infiniti dealer is the only one with a CARB E.O number/sticker? Plus I've gotten to know the guys at Stillen over the years. They're local.

As far as the exhaust, I was between the FI and Stillen. Met a guy at a meet who had the Stillen exhaust and I had him rev it. Loved the deep growl.

https://youtu.be/oLCJqta0xOg

*WARNING- the sound clip doesn't really do it justice. It's every bit as loud as it sounds and then some. IF you are not certain this is what you want, you might wanna go for the FI CBE. It's got both non-resonated and resonated options, which is nice.

Great diversity of good experience on this board. Across multiple areas. Engine, tunes, suspension, turbos, electronics, sound, wheels, tires ... you name it. I too was new to this VR30 Q platform, but have managed to come up to speed pretty quick.

Best wishes

Keith Gipson




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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 11:04 PM
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As far as the Air Intake, I would recommend the Stillen if you live in So Cal.
While Stillen has, I believe, the only air intake available for California, I cannot recommend it to anyone. The Stillen air intake has had many bad reports -- just search the Q50 and Q60 forums; it is a junk product that was rushed to market. The OEM air boxes and filter are absolutely stellar; without a tune, nothing beats them; even with a tune, the cost for upgraded air intakes is difficult to justify. I would make air intakes one of the last upgrades, and I would only consider AMS' intakes as they do not have any drivability or quality issues.

2017 Q60 AWD - 414 whp, 494 wtq [Red Alpha Cold Air Intake Kit, Red Alpha Heat Exchanger, Red Alpha Coolant Expansion Tank, Red Alpha Auxiliary Coolant Tank, Mishimoto Oil Catch Can, Infiniti Akebono Big Brake Kit, Infiniti Q60 Helmholtz Sport Exhaust, aFe Power Y-pipe/Mid-pipe resonated, Red Alpha Lower Downpipes, Red Alpha Aluminum AWD Driveshaft, AMS Red Alpha Tune, Michelin Pilot Sport 4S + VS Forged VS02 Brushed Bronze - F:255/40R19 / R:295/35R19]
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 12:15 AM
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So will I "need" a tune?

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Originally Posted by Malmby View Post
While Stillen has, I believe, the only air intake available for California, I cannot recommend it to anyone. The Stillen air intake has had many bad reports -- just search the Q50 and Q60 forums; it is a junk product that was rushed to market. The OEM air boxes and filter are absolutely stellar; without a tune, nothing beats them; even with a tune, the cost for upgraded air intakes is difficult to justify. I would make air intakes one of the last upgrades, and I would only consider AMS' intakes as they do not have any drivability or quality issues.

I haven't experienced any of those driveability issues, but I have seen the reports. The safest thing to do is go for the AMS, except in CA, unless you wanna take your chances.

I had a chance to sit down with the Stillen Engineers and they mentioned a TSB that relates to the transmission control, most likely similar to the custom throttle wastegate code in the Ecutech tune. (And I'm not going to get into the BOV, or lack thereof discussion. It's been best to death).

Unfortunately I bought the Stillen intake before joining this forum, and hadn't really learned a lot about the platform yet. I actually have never heard of any car fussing over an air intake like some of our cars? And many Q enthusiasts are running it down here with no issues whatsoever, including some Red Sports 400's. But to each his own.

I love the sweet spooling sound it opens up on the turbos. Plus the peace of mind that I won't get one of those expensive, state ref inspection tickets if CHP happens to want to have me pop my hood.

One thing we all agree on. The OEM air boxes and filter are absolutely stellar, as you mentioned, and is a TRUE sealed cold air intake, with the hood scoops feeding from that grille integrated with the stock intakes under the front engine cowl. (I've actually done a bit of custom work on my Q to preserve that functionality >; ).

With a tune and for 49 states I also definitely recommend the AMS intake, but my personal experience with the Stillen air intake has been great.

IMHO there's always going to be issues like these. Factory OEM or after market. An example of this is the serpentine belt tension / squeal / breaking problem. Or blown turbos on low mileage cars...with and without a tune?




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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 11:35 PM Thread Starter
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Hey guys, I certainly appreciate all the great advice. I feel like I may stay with the OEM intake for now, but should I go with a drop in filter of some kind? Also, I've come across that is selling the Infiniti sport exhaust, no muffler, looks like straight pipes. Since I'm in New Hampshire, I can get away with whatever! Live Free or Die style.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 11:58 PM
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Hey guys, I certainly appreciate all the great advice. I feel like I may stay with the OEM intake for now, but should I go with a drop in filter of some kind? Also, I've come across that is selling the Infiniti sport exhaust, no muffler, looks like straight pipes. Since I'm in New Hampshire, I can get away with whatever! Live Free or Die style.

I'd stick with the genuine OEM filter in that case. Change it out/clean it frequently. Great that you're in New Hampshire. Much more car mod friendly. Best wishes.



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