Mishimoto Q60/50 Catch can design - Infiniti Q60 Forum
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-04-2019, 12:47 PM Thread Starter
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Mishimoto Q60/50 Catch can design

So I went to the dealer and was talking with a mechanic and parts guy about the PCV system is routed.


Theres a port on each Valve cover according to the schematic drawing he showed me.

Now it didnt show where these hoses connected to other than the VC.


So Now my questions are:

IF the Mishi Kit is using the factory PCV system and locations, how is this venting the valve covers?
- If a PCV is used, they're usually a one way check valve, So when the car is not in boost, it should draw air from manifold.
So what will happen when the manifold is under boost? The PCV valve should close and when that does, What is now venting the valve covers?

As we know the crankcase suffers more pressure when the car is in boost and need ventilation the most.


Im just still skeptical of this can that everyone ran out and bought. (Apparently Mishi is out of stock of them according to Z1 motorsports as I asked them about it and they didnt have many answers with this can)

According to their own video on YouTube, it did accumulate oil for X miles.. Which is fine, but was this during normal driving when car is in VAC?
It would still collect oil just like a non turbo'd engine.


I just dont see any benefit of this model specific can as it just connects to the factory PCV system.



Now I had mentioned that I had Black oil on my oil filters and air box had a layer of oil which makes me wonder if theres no check valve and just connects
from manifold to inlets. Which means no PCV valve. But IDK about this Mishimoto system..

I seriously dont think thay did homework on this and just did the normal naturally aspirated engine route.


( On a side note, on YouTube i saw a vid about changing spark plugs and they guy noticed oil in his intercooler, Which is what we all are trying to avoid.)


Again, Venting to atmosphere or a closed system Being vented from the source VC's is optimal.


I was looking at Vibrant vented can, but wondering where to mount it.



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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-04-2019, 07:37 PM
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Just going to leave a few other resources to read:
The PCV must remained sealed; you should never vent-to-atmosphere on the PCV. You can vent-to-atmosphere on the blow-by hoses to the compressors.

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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-04-2019, 07:48 PM
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I could not edit my previous post.
Quote:
I just dont see any benefit of this model specific can as it just connects to the factory PCV system.
Mishimoto's OCC kit for the VR30 is designed to filter the PCV that can cause oil from the crankcase to enter the intake manifold due to the vacuum pulling the combustion gases out of the crankcase; the OCC sits in this path to filter out much (expectation; not specifically measured) of the oil.

I have it Mishimoto's OCC installed; as others have seen and documented, I found a lot of oil captured in the can after 1000 miles. Do I believe the Mishimoto OCC kit is the best design? No, I do believe there is room for improvement; however, it is a fantastic option. Do not let perfection get in the way of greatness. (Frankly, any decent quality OCC would work just fine -- I did not want to fabricate my own mounting bracket, so I went with the Mishimoto kit; in fact, I did buy everything except the mounting bracket a week before the kit was announced, so I still have those parts in a box.)

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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-05-2019, 06:25 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malmby View Post
Just going to leave a few other resources to read:
The PCV must remained sealed; you should never vent-to-atmosphere on the PCV. You can vent-to-atmosphere on the blow-by hoses to the compressors.
Why must it remain sealed? Besides the EPA regulations which automakers need to follow, just searching google and picking whatever to post doesnt answer the question. I dont need to read your search results.


On the blow by hoses to the compressors? Need an explanation on this also.


Ive been using catch cans way before they were labeled oil-air separators and know what they're for and where they need to hook to to perform the best.


Defending mishimoto when their design is flawed which i stated in the post doesnt mean its a good design, it just tells me they just do what they always do and just stick a can between the PCV and the Vac inlet. Which is fine if it wasnt a turbo'd engine.

Turbo'd engines need venting and some even vent it to the exhaust pipe and blow the oil out the pipe. But usually thats a race situation where oil is drained right after the race. But venting to atmosphere is perfectly fine as whatever pressure builds up in the case will be expelled naturally. Thus saving the piston rings.

In a perfect non atmosphere venting world, you would use 2 cans (1 for each valve cover ) and needs to be in a VAC only which is before the turbo.

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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-05-2019, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Esoteric Image View Post
Why must it remain sealed? Besides the EPA regulations which automakers need to follow, just searching google and picking whatever to post doesnt answer the question. I dont need to read your search results.
The crankcase is pressurized and the PCV is designed as a vacuum, so that vacuum in the intake pulls air through the crankcase, forcing the post-combustion gases out. Without a vacuum, all of those gases are not purged and eventually become blow-by past the piston rings. Additionally, venting to atmosphere on this will smell like hot garbage.

Quote:
On the blow by hoses to the compressors? Need an explanation on this also.
If you follow the hoses, they connect the valve covers to (driver's side) turbo and (passenger's side) a coupler connected to the turbo. The service manual has multiple diagrams that show the paths; alternatively, if you get the car completely off the ground, it is not too difficult to follow the hoses. I am unsure of their precise purpose and an uneducated guess will not benefit us much here. One quick diagram reference as my care-meter is quickly dissipating: https://www.infinitiq50.org/forum/at...3&d=1533831165

Quote:
In a perfect non atmosphere venting world, you would use 2 cans (1 for each valve cover ) and needs to be in a VAC only which is before the turbo.
The VR30 does not connect the crankcase to both valve covers; only the driver's side valve cover is connected to the crankcase, forming the PCV.

Quote:
Defending mishimoto when their design is flawed which i stated in the post doesnt mean its a good design, it just tells me they just do what they always do and just stick a can between the PCV and the Vac inlet. Which is fine if it wasnt a turbo'd engine.
I am defending the design as it filters the PCV, and multiple people have shown the amount of oil that is captured. Mishimoto's design is accomplishing a lot! Whether it is the best package for the VR30 engine, it is not perfect as it does not filter the hoses running from the valve covers to the two compressors; however, it is a great product without being perfect and 3x the cost.
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-06-2019, 10:05 AM
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Malby is correct as far as the valve cover vent routing- In the below diagram you'll notice numbers 4 and 8. These go from the respective valve covers to the inlet on each turbo. The point of this is you'll draw a vacuum on the crankcase due to the compressor impeller drawing in air. This vacuum on the crankcase aids in piston ring sealing....which is why it's better than simply venting to atmosphere. However it is still possible to get oil misting sucked into the turbo's from this.

#14 in the diagram is the line that Mishimoto tackled which is the line from the valve cover to the intake manifold which is where you'll get a bunch of crap sucked back into the intake. The 2nd pic below is the routing of the PCV valve based on driving conditions (idle vs. cruise vs. WOT). My main gripe with Mishimoto's kit is the price and the location they chose to mount their OCC. I built my own for about $20 that looks the same as their's but isn't in the way of the BOV location that people choose to use.
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-11-2019, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Malmby View Post
If you follow the hoses, they connect the valve covers to (driver's side) turbo and (passenger's side) a coupler connected to the turbo.

The VR30 does not connect the crankcase to both valve covers; only the driver's side valve cover is connected to the crankcase, forming the PCV.

it is not perfect as it does not filter the hoses running from the valve covers to the two compressors; however, it is a great product without being perfect and 3x the cost.

So I have two cans. What should I do?

Connect one can on the driver's side to the PCV (Mishimoto setup), and the use the other can separately to vent the valve cover on the passenger side (only)? Or BOTH valve covers using connecting tubing? Passenger's and driver's?

Thoughts???





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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-11-2019, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by gipsonke View Post
So I have two cans. What should I do?

Connect one can on the driver's side to the PCV (Mishimoto setup), and the use the other can separately to vent the valve cover on the passenger side (only)? Or BOTH valve covers using connecting tubing? Passenger's and driver's?
You could use one catch can on the PCV (most important) and the other catch can on one of the valve cover-to-turbocharger paths.
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-11-2019, 08:56 AM
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Mishimoto Q60/50 Catch can design

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Originally Posted by Malmby View Post
You could use one catch can on the PCV (most important) and the other catch can on one of the valve cover-to-turbocharger paths.

Thanks. That's what I was thinking...

So something like this?
(Sorry about the "crude" drawing)







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Last edited by gipsonke; 05-11-2019 at 09:00 AM.
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-11-2019, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by gipsonke View Post
So something like this?
(Sorry about the "crude" drawing)
Oof, that is crude. Conceptually, yes, that is what you are after.

Physically, it would be either hose #4 or hose #8 in the diagram below for the second catch can/air-oil separator; hose #14 would be for the first catch can/air-oil separator.
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