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Discussion Starter #1
Burger Motorsports recently released a fully integrated meth kit that tailors boost to meth flow and cuts boost if either the flow drops or you run empty on meth. You can adjust boost as well as prime the system all from your phone. I'm not going to go through the entire install since Burger has an install document, but I did do it differently and was able to keep EVERYTHING in the engine bay aside from the JB4 OBD2 cable and a single power wire that is hot on ignition only. I have the service manual and could not find a SINGLE fuse that was hot on ignition only, so ran it to the driverside foot well and took over the power socket fuse location (shout out to RS400newbie for this).

Goals:

I was not interested in A) running straight meth or boost juice, B) having to mount the pump and tank in the trunk, and C) run the lines all the way through the car. Make sure you putty all the fittings to prevent leaks. I live in a hot climate so wanted the cooling affect. I also am looking for this to help keep those pesky intake valves clean and carbon free.

Here are some tips on what I did and how I did my setup:
Pic 1- Oh look, we already have a "meth reservoir" under the hood....i.e. the windshield washer tank. I wouldn't run straight meth in this tank but, since -20*F windshield washer fluid is ~40% methanol, this gets you a tank for free, just drill a 2nd hole and run the feed line from the reservoir to the pump. Don't get windshield washer fluid that has all the "bug cleaner" additive. Get the cheap stuff as recommended by many of the big time meth vendors. Make sure not to drill through the middle of the cap as there is a tiny vent hole in the center of the cap. You'll also notice the pump fits in the driver side cubby along with the JB4, FSB (fail-safe meth flow controller that wires to the JB4 and solenoid), and meth solenoid. You can't close the lid, but given that I don't have to find a place to physically bolt the pump down or deal with the PITA of getting to the pump, I'll take it. The pump should also be above the reservoir level.

Pic 2- Some of you saw how I did the CRC cleaner using the PCV port.....we'll now it's my driverside meth injection point using a Y fitting. It's oriented so that the meth flows straight down into the fitting, the side fitting is the catch can fitting to reduce the changes of any liquid getting back to the catch can, but still provides venting when not spraying meth. I'm a little bitter because I bought a 2.75" coupler and created an injection in the coupler....only to find out there is NO gap between the A2W intercooler output and the throttle body input, the 2 pipes physically touch so this killed this idea.

Pic 3- This is the passenger side injection point. On this side there IS a gap between the A2W output and the throttle body. I bought a 2.75" coupler and a jam nut. Drilled a hole in the coupler, added some locktite as we don't want this coming loose, and installed. You'll also note the distribution block by the cowl behind the motor. I ran it this way so the driver and passenger side are equidistant from the nozzles so they get equal flow.

Pic 4- Overall engine bay pic.

Enjoy!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
WHOA!! nice job man! clean!! How's the performance? Did you notice any difference? I have the JB4 with fuel wire add on myself.
she pulls strong! I have the fuel wire upgrade as well. Not many with the meth kit so I figured I'd throw some ideas out there for others.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Burger Motorsports recently released a fully integrated meth kit that tailors boost to meth flow and cuts boost if either the flow drops or you run empty on meth. You can adjust boost as well as prime the system all from your phone. I'm not going to go through the entire install since Burger has an install document, but I did do it differently and was able to keep EVERYTHING in the engine bay aside from the JB4 OBD2 cable and a single power wire that is hot on ignition only. I have the service manual and could not find a SINGLE fuse that was hot on ignition only, so ran it to the driverside foot well and took over the power socket fuse location (shout out to RS400newbie for this).

Goals:

I was not interested in A) running straight meth or boost juice, B) having to mount the pump and tank in the trunk, and C) run the lines all the way through the car. Make sure you putty all the fittings to prevent leaks. I live in a hot climate so wanted the cooling affect. I also am looking for this to help keep those pesky intake valves clean and carbon free.

Here are some tips on what I did and how I did my setup:
Pic 1- Oh look, we already have a "meth reservoir" under the hood....i.e. the windshield washer tank. I wouldn't run straight meth in this tank but, since -20*F windshield washer fluid is ~40% methanol, this gets you a tank for free, just drill a 2nd hole and run the feed line from the reservoir to the pump. Don't get windshield washer fluid that has all the "bug cleaner" additive. Get the cheap stuff as recommended by many of the big time meth vendors. Make sure not to drill through the middle of the cap as there is a tiny vent hole in the center of the cap. You'll also notice the pump fits in the driver side cubby along with the JB4, FSB (fail-safe meth flow controller that wires to the JB4 and solenoid), and meth solenoid. You can't close the lid, but given that I don't have to find a place to physically bolt the pump down or deal with the PITA of getting to the pump, I'll take it. The pump should also be above the reservoir level.

Pic 2- edit!!! I was able to add the coupler instead of using the pcv port. I wasn't getting good misting from the pcv port.

Pic 3- This is the passenger side injection point. On this side there IS a gap between the A2W output and the throttle body. I bought a 2.75" coupler and a jam nut. Drilled a hole in the coupler, added some locktite as we don't want this coming loose, and installed. You'll also note the distribution block by the cowl behind the motor. I ran it this way so the driver and passenger side are equidistant from the nozzles so they get equal flow.

Pic 4- Overall engine bay pic.

Enjoy!
edited pic 2 info!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
So is this what you ordered from Burger Tuning?





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I ordered the 399 kit, but not the couplers. Just my opinion, but I don't like where Burger chose to inject meth with those couplers for multiple reasons. It is "hot side" injection prior to the turbo. For about $20, I made my own injection couplers right in front of the throttle body.
 

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I ordered the 399 kit, but not the couplers. Just my opinion, but I don't like where Burger chose to inject meth with those couplers for multiple reasons. It is "hot side" injection prior to the turbo. For about $20, I made my own injection couplers right in front of the throttle body.
This is also where a BOV kit would go so you lose that necessity for the sake of meth, honestly I feel BMS has been slacking on our platform and half-assing a lot of the products for the Q50/Q60.

I plan on doing my own kit when the time comes, I have been drawing up schematics and finding compatible parts. It's sad to hear there is no spacing for a nozzle between the intercooler and throttle body on the driver's side, that kinda throws a wrench in my plans.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I ordered the 399 kit, but not the couplers. Just my opinion, but I don't like where Burger chose to inject meth with those couplers for multiple reasons. It is "hot side" injection prior to the turbo. For about $20, I made my own injection couplers right in front of the throttle body.
This is also where a BOV kit would go so you lose that necessity for the sake of meth, honestly I feel BMS has been slacking on our platform and half-assing a lot of the products for the Q50/Q60.

I plan on doing my own kit when the time comes, I have been drawing up schematics and finding compatible parts. It's sad to hear there is no spacing for a nozzle between the intercooler and throttle body on the driver's side, that kinda throws a wrench in my plans.
I agree with you on BMS for our platform. I did edit the info. I was able to get a nozzle on the driverside between the TB and intercooler with a tiny amount of trimming.
 

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I'm no expert by any means, but based on @ddnspider's expertise, it seems that the meth injection location is much more critical perhaps than the Blow off valve location?

My HKS BOV kit and my JB4 is on the way, and I want to figure out an alternate location for the BOVs because IF I eventually get a meth kit, my preference would be to install the injectors in the better positions per @ddnspider.

BOV mounting location debates are raging on many car forums.

Here's some excerpts:

I’ve searched and read extensively and it seems there are 2 divided camps on this issue; before the intercooler and after it. I understand the logic behind both arguments. Before the intercooler will vent hot air before it passes through the intercooler, keeping the intercooler cooler and therefore reducing the incoming air temperature. I also understand closer to the throttle body after the intercooler as not to send a shockwave of air through the system when the throttle blade closes. My question is, for the average 500-600 horsepower turbo car, which is better? Does is not really matter at that power level? Is there anyone out there who’s tried their BOV in both positions and saw a difference with some data to back up a better placement? Any answers would be greatly appreciated.

Reply #2
killernoodle's Avatar killernoodle , 02-20-2012 02:11 PM
Doesn't matter in the least. Put it where it fits, looks nice, and is easy to work on.

The argument that it needs to come before the intercooler to vent hot air is stupid.

Reply #3
123quattro , 02-20-2012 02:12 PM
Put it wherever it fits best. I always shoot for closer to the throttle.

Reply #4
smokinHawk's Avatar smokinHawk , 02-20-2012 02:49 PM
a lot did it before the intercooler as not to pressurize the IC to much when the throttle body close and make the IC burst.
now you know all the issues so chose which one you are more concerned about.

Reply #5
slow67's Avatar slow67 , 02-20-2012 03:33 PM
My personal theory is, I put it closest to the turbo, as its main job is to protect it.

Controversy notwithstanding, taking into account the extremely tight engine bays of our Q's, the question I am submitting to the forum is:

"What is the best alternative mounting locations for the BOVs since the meth injectors are there?"

Thanks,

Keith

P.S. If it currently wasn't so dark outside right now, I would most likely be in my driveway standing over my engine bay pondering this very question! LOL


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Just curious if the water injectors are in a secure location?

Looking at the pictures it seems they drilled into the rubber intake tube, with heat, flex and boost pressure will the injectors eventually pop out?

A LONG time ago I did a water injection system on an MR2 turbo with an Aquamist unit and had an adaptor plate made to mount the water nozzle.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
@gipsonke- I'd do the meth injection where I've got it, between the TB and A2W. Then put the BOV's between the turbo and A2W (I think this is where the Z1 kit is located). Everything's a bit packed in as you know and this is the best compromise.
@mva- Those meth nozzles are not simply pushed in a hole. They are fastened with a jam nut on the inside of the coupler and blue loctite. Similar to:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sno-40110?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-snow-performance&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5N3h9IXX4QIVAyaGCh0pRgMYEAQYASABEgIbyvD_BwE

Without a fastener on the inside of the coupler those nozzles would have popped out the 1st time the car saw boost lol.
 

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@gipsonke- I'd do the meth injection where I've got it, between the TB and A2W. Then put the BOV's between the turbo and A2W (I think this is where the Z1 kit is located). Everything's a bit packed in as you know and this is the best compromise.
@mva- Those meth nozzles are not simply pushed in a hole. They are fastened with a jam nut on the inside of the coupler and blue loctite. Similar to:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sno-40110?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-snow-performance&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5N3h9IXX4QIVAyaGCh0pRgMYEAQYASABEgIbyvD_BwE

Without a fastener on the inside of the coupler those nozzles would have popped out the 1st time the car saw boost lol.

Thanks! Sounds like a plan!


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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks! Sounds like a plan!


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Just an FYI, I was a cheap ass and didn't want to spend $50 on those fittings lol. I used a jam nut with loctite, which worked out better because it's a smaller nut on the inside of the coupler which allows the coupler to be smaller. I still had to trim about 1/4"-1/2" off the lip of the driverside A2W outlet, but you can't tell and its definitely where it should go so was worth the hassle.
 

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Pic 1- Oh look, we already have a "meth reservoir" under the hood....i.e. the windshield washer tank. I wouldn't run straight meth in this tank but, since -20*F windshield washer fluid is ~40% methanol, this gets you a tank for free, just drill a 2nd hole and run the feed line from the reservoir to the pump. Don't get windshield washer fluid that has all the "bug cleaner" additive. Get the cheap stuff as recommended by many of the big time meth vendors.

[/ QUOTE]

@ddnspider What particular brand of -20*F windshield washer fluid do you use? I went on a meth kit vendor's web site and they had a listing of some of the most common brands of windshield washer fluid manufacturers. A very few of them had glycol, etc in them.

So far I'm running down the list trying to find a source online for one of the suitable ones. Or I might just have to get my lazy butt up and actually GO to a Wal-Mart LOL!

Here's a screenshot of the list. You want about 40% methenol right?

Thanks

Keith





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I found that same table. I'm in the south so its tough to get anything less than +20F here.....Tip I just discovered is that HEET that you buy from your local auto parts store is ~99% methanol. Meaning as long as you buy some WWF without all the additives, you should be able to add a bottle of HEET for $3 and get a good concentration of WWF if you can't find one on the list you showed.
 

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I found that same table. I'm in the south so its tough to get anything less than +20F here.....Tip I just discovered is that HEET that you buy from your local auto parts store is ~99% methanol. Meaning as long as you buy some WWF without all the additives, you should be able to add a bottle of HEET for $3 and get a good concentration of WWF if you can't find one on the list you showed.

Yeah... Everything here in So Cal is like +20-32*F, which is why I'm trying to find something online. But I'll just dump some HEET in the resoivoir. BTW Any idea how many ounces our reservoirs hold? That was a great idea about the windshield washer fluid reservoir. Don't have to worry about mounting a tank in the trunk, running lines etc.

Thanks for all your help!


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Yeah... Everything here in So Cal is like +20-32*F, which is why I'm trying to find something online. But I'll just dump some HEET in the resoivoir. BTW Any idea how many ounces our reservoirs hold? That was a great idea about the windshield washer fluid reservoir. Don't have to worry about mounting a tank in the trunk, running lines etc.

Thanks for all your help!


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Full disclosure-Burger and I are in disagreement about mounting everything under the hood. Terry's comment "Ugh those engine bay installs never work long term for other reasons. Pump needs to be below fluid level to self prime. And engine bay heat may cause the pump to vapor lock. "

I disagree as the pump is not "in the engine bay". There is sheet metal and plastic between it and the motor/exhaust even though its "under the hood". Also, I think its pretty crappy that the standard meth kit didn't even come with a reservoir, the WWF tank just makes things much simpler. I haven't had any issues with priming or bubbles or the pump feeling hot, melting lines, etc.

I tried to find out how big our reservoir is but haven't come up with anything yet. Ill check the service manual, maybe the specs are in there. if you get under the car and take off the plastic shielding, it's actually a decent size. I would assume its ~1 gallon or so.
 

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I just disconnected the outlet of my pump and purged most of the +20 I had in the reservoir as my local store had finally stocked the blue -20*F, it's got to be around a gallon or more in for the stock WWF tank, as I put in 3/4 or more of the -20F and the tank wasn't empty. Added the HEET as well so should be at least 40%. They say as a general rule to stay under 50% otherwise the mix becomes more flammable.
 

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Here goes California again... Apparently, according to state law the CARB limits the types of windshield washer fluid (mostly only +32) that can be sold here:

"Thank you for inquiring about PEAK products.

According to state VOC (Volatile Organic Compounds) regulations windshield wash fluid with a freeze point of -25°F cannot be sold in California".


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